This is going to be a long and rambling post, so hold on.
I met at Lilies War and we hit it off reasonably well. As most of us do, we connected later on LJ. On one particular post about fighting over at my SCA blog ( if you wanna see), he replied something to the effect of "If I can help, let me know."
One of the benefits of reaching my age is that you don't have to be coy. If someone offers help, pride and modesty are seen only as hindrances, not virtues.
He said words to the effect of "We'll have you knocking out huscarls in three months and breaking the arms of the Chivalry in six." Not only did he encourage my goals, he capped them. When I said "Gee, I can't do that," he said "Yes, you can." From then on he refused to hear me when I said can't. He got me all excited about possibilites, and yes, I drank the Kool-Aid.
He's been incredibly helpful in working out a routine for me, motivating me, and not taking my bullshit. What, I can hear some of you saying, couldn't you do this on your own?
Well, no.
I'm one of those people who, apparently, need a trainer. I've been lifting off and on (mostly off) since I was in my 20's, but I've been very spotty about it. It wasn't until I hit my late 20's that I realized that I could do anything I wanted to do and that my previous lack of sports experience, skill, or interest was no real bar. Yeah, so I had that knowledge and did nothing with it, except go have two kids via vaginal delivery, one without an epidural.
And then eventually I found the weights again, with help from Krista's stumptuous website. Her Butch Up! rant was especially helpful.
So I was doing weights occasionally, learning more, but mostly wishing and sitting around on my ass. Until now. Now, I'm scurrying around doing weights regularly, and--holy God--actually training to enter a 5K race this November. If someone had said to me at the beginning of the year that I'd be running in such a thing, I'd've laughed myself right out of my computer chair.
I need someone to be accountable to. Someone who knows just how difficult the goals ahead of me are, who knows that I'm not doing this only to be healthy, or only to fight, or only to (Inshallah) get smokin' hot.
Not to mention someone who isn't scared of women lifting weights.
Aha, now we get to it.
Reading through
orbitalmechanic's iron adventures has reminded me all over again of the freaky prejudice against women lifting heavy. I keep thinking it's a thing of the past, or only among certain folks (you know: They).
I'm reminded of all the times I've posted a picture of a woman bodybuilder only to have it met with tsking and headshaking and wow, she looks gross. She looks like a guy. She doesn't look feminine. Etc., etc., ad nauseum. Not to mention, You want to look like that? Why?
Why.
Here's Lenda Murray.

Flipping amazing. Lenda Murray has won Ms. Olympia 8 times. The last time was in 2003, when she was 41 years old. She took second the next year, when she was 42.
This is Dina Al-Sabah.

Dinah Al-Sabah has ovarian fortitude the likes of which I can't even comprehend. She's a figure competitor, which is more accepted than a bodybuilder, but still. You can't tell me she didn't build that body.
Valentina Chepiga

Andrulla Blanchette

How could I not want to look like these women?
Of course, odds are that I won't. Not because any lack of ability, etc., on my part, but these women have been pros--they have the time, money, and--sorry--steroids with which to pursue bodybuilding at that level. (With perhaps the exception of Dina, but she's a figure competitor and not looking for what steroids can give her.)
The thing is, though, these women are decried for looking like men. Well, men don't look like this either. This looks like human muscle, developed past the norm of what we're used to seeing everyday.
Muscle knows no gender.
And yet even though there are competitions for bodybuilding women, and organizations, there is still enormous pressure on these women to focus on figure competition, or to make themselves seem more sexual for the competitions. Breast implants. High heels. (High heels, of all things, which are antithetical to a fit body!)
Perhaps the saddest and most absurd manifestation of this genderizing of bodybuilding is the incredible amount of near-pornographic websites bodybuilding women have to get up in order to make money. For women, bodybuilding doesn't pay out like it does for men. Shawn Ray and Arnold Schwarzenegger get book deals, endorsement deals, etc. What do the women get? Members only websites that promise sleazy photos taken in hotel rooms--or, worse yet, bookings for private wrestling sessions. Forums and chat rooms that advertise which bodybuilder is available for a muscle worship session.
Even more mainstream avenues for women bodybuilders tend to depict these athletes in ultra-feminine, sexualized settings. And why?
It's the same old, same old. It's not enough to celebrate the accomplishment itself. The woman is deemed as being of value only if she's fuckable. So it's not enough to have 17" biceps and weigh 140lbs. Nope--to be valued, you gotta put on a thong and thigh highs and whatever other trappings are currently soft-wired into the perception of female sexual receptiveness.
These are all very tricky waters to navigate.
Remember, the act of picking up a barbell is one of the most subversive acts you as a woman can do.
Make it matter.
I met at Lilies War and we hit it off reasonably well. As most of us do, we connected later on LJ. On one particular post about fighting over at my SCA blog ( if you wanna see), he replied something to the effect of "If I can help, let me know."
One of the benefits of reaching my age is that you don't have to be coy. If someone offers help, pride and modesty are seen only as hindrances, not virtues.
He said words to the effect of "We'll have you knocking out huscarls in three months and breaking the arms of the Chivalry in six." Not only did he encourage my goals, he capped them. When I said "Gee, I can't do that," he said "Yes, you can." From then on he refused to hear me when I said can't. He got me all excited about possibilites, and yes, I drank the Kool-Aid.
He's been incredibly helpful in working out a routine for me, motivating me, and not taking my bullshit. What, I can hear some of you saying, couldn't you do this on your own?
Well, no.
I'm one of those people who, apparently, need a trainer. I've been lifting off and on (mostly off) since I was in my 20's, but I've been very spotty about it. It wasn't until I hit my late 20's that I realized that I could do anything I wanted to do and that my previous lack of sports experience, skill, or interest was no real bar. Yeah, so I had that knowledge and did nothing with it, except go have two kids via vaginal delivery, one without an epidural.
And then eventually I found the weights again, with help from Krista's stumptuous website. Her Butch Up! rant was especially helpful.
Excuse #1: I need to wait until I lose another 20 lbs., get married, resolve my mother issues, make some more money, blah blah blah, insert future goal here.
No you don’t. You need to start RIGHT NOW, today, this very minute. What is that in your hand? A cookie? Either eat it and own up to it like a big girl, or throw it out. What is that sitting next to you? A phone? Pick it up and call your local gym, and make an appointment to see their stuff. I see a pen sitting on your desk next to a calendar. You will use this pen right now to write down three days on the calendar that you will spend 30-60 minutes doing something physical. For most of you there are feet at the end of your legs. Stand up and do something with them to get them moving. Think of what you can do right now, today, and this week to take charge. Then do it.I need someone to be accountable to. Someone who knows just how difficult the goals ahead of me are, who knows that I'm not doing this only to be healthy, or only to fight, or only to (Inshallah) get smokin' hot.
Not to mention someone who isn't scared of women lifting weights.
Aha, now we get to it.
Reading through
I'm reminded of all the times I've posted a picture of a woman bodybuilder only to have it met with tsking and headshaking and wow, she looks gross. She looks like a guy. She doesn't look feminine. Etc., etc., ad nauseum. Not to mention, You want to look like that? Why?
Why.
Here's Lenda Murray.
Flipping amazing. Lenda Murray has won Ms. Olympia 8 times. The last time was in 2003, when she was 41 years old. She took second the next year, when she was 42.
This is Dina Al-Sabah.
Dinah Al-Sabah has ovarian fortitude the likes of which I can't even comprehend. She's a figure competitor, which is more accepted than a bodybuilder, but still. You can't tell me she didn't build that body.
Valentina Chepiga
Andrulla Blanchette
How could I not want to look like these women?
Of course, odds are that I won't. Not because any lack of ability, etc., on my part, but these women have been pros--they have the time, money, and--sorry--steroids with which to pursue bodybuilding at that level. (With perhaps the exception of Dina, but she's a figure competitor and not looking for what steroids can give her.)
The thing is, though, these women are decried for looking like men. Well, men don't look like this either. This looks like human muscle, developed past the norm of what we're used to seeing everyday.
Muscle knows no gender.
And yet even though there are competitions for bodybuilding women, and organizations, there is still enormous pressure on these women to focus on figure competition, or to make themselves seem more sexual for the competitions. Breast implants. High heels. (High heels, of all things, which are antithetical to a fit body!)
Perhaps the saddest and most absurd manifestation of this genderizing of bodybuilding is the incredible amount of near-pornographic websites bodybuilding women have to get up in order to make money. For women, bodybuilding doesn't pay out like it does for men. Shawn Ray and Arnold Schwarzenegger get book deals, endorsement deals, etc. What do the women get? Members only websites that promise sleazy photos taken in hotel rooms--or, worse yet, bookings for private wrestling sessions. Forums and chat rooms that advertise which bodybuilder is available for a muscle worship session.
Even more mainstream avenues for women bodybuilders tend to depict these athletes in ultra-feminine, sexualized settings. And why?
It's the same old, same old. It's not enough to celebrate the accomplishment itself. The woman is deemed as being of value only if she's fuckable. So it's not enough to have 17" biceps and weigh 140lbs. Nope--to be valued, you gotta put on a thong and thigh highs and whatever other trappings are currently soft-wired into the perception of female sexual receptiveness.
These are all very tricky waters to navigate.
Remember, the act of picking up a barbell is one of the most subversive acts you as a woman can do.
Make it matter.
- Music:Wagner, "Das Rheingold: Vorspiel"

Comments
I don't have a problem with women and weights, but I saw a picture today of Madonna that just had me, well, grossed out.
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/0
Okay, truth is, I never found Madonna that appealing anyway (except maybe during the "Vogue" days, but I have a soft spot for period fashion).
I guess the difference is that the women you posted seem to have muscle and HEFT behind them... whereas, in my opinion, M. just looks dessicated. Stringy, even.
I think it's a matter of "What fits your body type best?"
Me, I don't know. Sometimes I think it would be cool, sometimes I think I'd look like a freak.
As for the original post, How could I not want to look like these women?
You shouldn't look like them. You should look like yourself. Well-muscled, fit, in good shape - but like yourself. Why would anyone want to look like that, when they could be a buff versions of themselves?
...but, then, I've always been of the persuasion that people should look normal. Not maxed out on steroids and 10-hour days of lifting weights; nor maxed out on food! food! food!; nor in the throes of serious addiction. Just normal is beautiful enough. Life needs balance, and the most beautiful people are those who have that balance.
...and in any case, incompatible sex has been a primary reason for divorces for quite a while - "refusal to grant conjugal visits", "the marriage was never consummated", and the like. Sex is, after all, one of the primary reasons people would get married, because marriage was considered to be the only valid reason to have sex.
Yeah, she has energy and savvy. So does any graduate of a good business school or law school. But for a marriage to be successful, there has to be other reasons to hang out with one particular person, and good sex is one (I repeat, just one) of the more important ones. Why marry someone you wouldn't want to be intimate with?
As for the quote; I didn't take Mr. Ritchie's comment to imply his ex-wife was too skinny. I read it to mean that he thought she'd exercised so much that she was all muscle, all grit and sinew and tendon and hardness, that he found the experience thoroughly unpleasant. It wasn't "she's underweight", it was "she's overmuscled".
I also suspect that such a comment would apply to male bodybuilders as well as female. I pass by weightlifting magazines in the supermarkets, and glance at the bulging-muscle guys on the covers - and I think they're, well, grotesque. I would hate to have sex with them if I were a woman as much as I would hate to have sex with female equivalents.
For me, it's not the sex of the person that gets my dander up, it's the muscles - or, rather, how far the person has gone in developing defined, ripped, toned, musculature. Enough muscles to be healthy and good-looking is definitely good; too many muscles, in anyone, turns them into, for me, caricatures, of the "why don't they get a life?" type.
It's not a sexist thing. It's a too-much-of-a-good-thing, errr, thing. And it is certainly one of personal taste; a man who you think is just right may be over-muscled to me, and someone who is to my taste might need more exercise for you.
(I'm reminded of a class I taught once, where I asked my students to write definitions of the stereotypes of mothers and fathers--each one wrote a note at the top of the page saying "I don't agree with any of this!" but they all wrote exactly the same definitions. That's going to have an effect, however hard we try to turn away from it.)
I am not entirely convinced that all women lift weights to slim down, nor men to bulk up. Back when I was still going to the gym, I was lifting weights to tone myself up - lose a bit of weight and several inches, get into better shape, and get a bit more muscular without adding bulk. I have heard anecdotal evidence that some women lift to add a bit of bulk...but, yeah, I could be easily persuaded that what you say could indeed be the Cultural Consensus, even though there's wide individual variation.
Madonna was tendon-and-gristle'd through too much body building. The photos
This, so much. She is beginning to look like a stingy old chicken, and it's very sad, because she has it in her to look so much better.
"Pain is weakness leaving the body"
You want one? I wear them a lot when working out.
ETA: I have a great book called Women's Strength Training Anatomy and it's really inspiring. ETA again: we also have the both-sexes one.
Edited at 2009-07-29 10:10 pm (UTC)
*grin* Actually, the best quote I've heard in that vein is "Pain is Taco Bell leaving the body." I'm waiting for that shirt!
In all honesty, there is a shirt I've got my eye on from Zazzle-- "Valkyrie in Training."
Keep up the hard work. The results of this blood, sweat, and passion will be breathtaking to behold. And painful, for some.
Every day I become more & more a fan of
The female bodybuilder thing; it's not me - I don't appreciate the aesthetic, but I do appreciate the hard work & drive it takes to get there. Especially for those who choose not to cut corners and go the chemical route. BTW, it is possible to look like Blanchette without ever seen a pill or a needle; I know the training plan to do it. But it is effing HEROIC. You'd be working out (seriously) about 8 hours a day.
As far as the industry sexualizing them unduly, well, yeah. That's a bummer. Even as a target of that advertising, I would much prefer it if women who go that route have the choice on whether or not to market themselves in that fashion.
It's hard to believe it's only been a month.
8 hours a day, huh? Well, we may be talking about that later on....
I understand about not caring for the aesthetic of the female bodybuilder--one person whom you might be more in tune with is Kat Ricker, who is 7 shades of multi-awesome. I'd kinda like to be her when I grow up.
http://www.mightykat.net/fitness_bio.ht
And yeah, it's all about choice, isn't it? I don't have a problem with sex work--as long as it is not a role that people have turned to because there were no other viable alternatives.
The male-model aesthetic I aspire to is The Doryphoros.
Having said that, I want you to be the amazingly successful, muscled and toned fighter wench that you wish to be. I want you to kick boy butt on a regular basis, and I want you to drag Raven along with you. Because, my darling girl, if that will make you happy, then I will happily blend your protein shakes for you....just to see that amazing smile of yours! And don't you dare ever, ever, ever feel that you have to put high heels on to feminize those muscles you will grow--I will break the heels on any pair of stripper shoes anyone suggests that you wear!
Now: Go get 'em!!
Just ask
I'd like to drag Raven along with me. I'd like to drag every woman fighter in the Barony with me.
If this photo isn't an iconic image for the sport of women's bodybuilding, it should be.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/billdob
Except to point out that anyone who can look at this woman and say that female bodybuilders are grotesque clearly is no judge of women.
Hawt!!
It's very much a to-each-his(her)-own thing.
Lots of people say "EW! How can anyone find THAT attractive?!?!"
Vast gap in POV there.
:-)
QFT.
(...and Dina Al-Sabah is most impressive. :) )