What Year Is This, People??!!?
mood: 
enraged
enragedmusic: Rage Against the Machine, "Bulls on Parade"
First, from the Asimov's forum, on the Political/Religious Discussion Board, in the section entitled Sexism and Science Fiction. The first comment was a quote from Edmond Cooper, where he's asking "Where are the female Beethovens?" Okay, this interview with Cooper took place in 1973. But then a couple of responses later, in 2000 and fucking 7, we get, from a seemingly rational human being:
However there is no doubting his rationale, "where are the female Beethovens", to that I add where are the female Newtons and Darwins, the female Jimi Hendrixs, the Asimovs, the George Washingtons, the Jack the Rippers, the Hitlers, the Stalins and so on... I think for purposes of raising our young, women (in general), have the very highest highs and the very lowest lows clipped from their repertoire. In all things they do not seem to have the capacity to hit the high and low notes that great men do.
Perhaps when your primary biological duty is to create life, then nurture it to maturity, and that being something far greater than any man can do, you must live with some deficits in return. These deficits probably make them better mothers.
In a well regulated society like we have in Western Cultures, women have great opportunity to do and obtain more than their male counterparts, but seldom do. They still want to have a baby or two and settle down with a husband. You can't simply overturn biology on a dime.
Save a very few oddballs, Indira Gandhi, Catherine the Great, Marie Curie, Mary Shelley, Elizabeth I, Joan of Arc, Ada Byron Lovelace etc... the achievements of women are more difficult to quantify than that of men.
OH MY GOD.
You like it? You want more?
This next one is from the Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction msg board. Topic was "Sexism, Part 2" in responses to Dave Truesdale's ill-considered "parody" of Adrienne Martini's comments on the Hugos:
Race is a difficult issue. Most characters in Asimov's (and indeed science fiction) are well-educated, are often affluent, and never listen to rap (if they listen to music it's usually pop or classic rock, but never ever rap). If they talk about home, it's rarely in the impoverished parts of the city. If they do drugs, it's because they have too much money, not because they have too little or lack hope. They never know anyone who died of an overdose or was murdered over a bad deal, a pair of sneakers, a set of rims. They always have access to decent medicine.
You can find exceptions to every one, of course. But these are markers. It's little wonder that blacks don't read science fiction and fantasy, and thus don't read it. There's no one to identify with.
And people say that race and feminism are no longer problem issues.
Here is a list of great women! They are exceptions!
What?
Of course, the U.S. Army doesn't allow women to go to sniper school (yet, something I think they should change) but there you go.
Where are all the big women? Well, for my two cents, Nancy Kress is the best writer out there in the science fiction field, bar none, period. Regardless of what plumbing she was given.
Female leaders? Got plenty of those to consider. Maggie Thatcher (yeah, I know, Liberals don't like her but she wasn't someone you wanted to fuck with), Elizabeth the First (another one you didn't want to cross), and I'm sure some of you could come up with others.
Female artists? Plenty of those. Annie Lebowitz anyone? Susan Sontag (need to read her book on photography, not gotten around to that yet) Dorthea Lang.
I'm one of those nasty "neo-cons" according to some pricks in the American SF community yet I can see that there are women who are either on par or superior to their male counterparts in the field.
My main thing per why there aren't more women in science fiction is the simple fact that women aren't writing it, editors can't buy it (hint, silk, hint, hint).
As for the race comment Sean or Dave made, well, I've already responded to that. You can get your arm bitten off if you fuck it up.
Which is rather amazing since I see the same writers complained about above screw up in their depictions of soldiers and rednecks on a regular basis as well.
I'd say, therefore, the problem is that some writers, especially those getting published, are leading awfully insulated lives where they do not encounter a great deal of impoverished people, or a "diversity" of culture except under very controlled conditions (either corporate or college enviroment).
Respects,
S. F. Murphy
Trapped in the Show Me State Again, God Help Me.
Impoverishment does not = ethnicity. That was the trouble Melican ran into.
But yes, I know what you mean about screwing up with depictions of soldiers & rednecks.
How about I write something with a military character?
If I recall correctly, this would include Doctor Ruth Westheimer.
And then there's Elizabeth Bear, Andre Norton, Vonda McIntyre, Pat Cadigan, Kristine Katherine Rusch, C.J. Cherryh, Leigh Brackett.
Women are represented in the genre. They should be more strongly represented, but they are out there in force. The question is, are male readers willing to give them the attention and acknowledgment that they deserve?
eh, hard one; they pretty much are, and I can't see it going away anytime soon. The problem with discussion boards like these, is that people don't talk to each other about whether there is a problem; the nature and reasons for the problems; and how to go about resolving their issues in an amicable fashion.
What happens in message boards, is that sides dig themselves in and start yelling until somebody gives up. Nobody is actually listening to each other, they're trying too hard to prove why their right.
I don't know, it's pretty demoralizing all round and very ugly, and I just can't imagine it being anything less than ugly for a long time still.
Maybe in a parallel universe things worked out differently.
But I've also had the opportunity to witness some very elegant and even-handed arguments put forth, and been blessed to learn something. I did today when I read the subcategory on the Nightshade board about Gordon Van Gelder's alleged sexism, and came across
That's probably the best reply ever. Do take a gander at the reactions I got when I posted back at Asimov's. I shifted "Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack" (for which introduction to I will always be grateful) to a sexist angle, and the responses may, perhaps, give you further examples.
(Anonymous)
But the study also points out that family racial and ethnic background still accounts for much of the difference in poverty among children.
Their findings, which are published in a special supplement to the December issue of Social Sciences Quarterly (86:5), indicate, for example, that in 2000, 9 percent of non-Hispanic white children lived below the government's poverty line, compared with 33 percent of non-Hispanic black children, 31 percent of Native American and 27 percent of Hispanic children. Japanese and Filipino children, on the other hand, had the lowest poverty rates: about 5 percent of both were poor in 2000.
While ethnicity does not equal impoverishment, there is a correlation. There are very few writers of color. There are very, very few characters of color. There are very, very, very few characters who are impoverished. The concerns of most speculative fiction writers and those of most blacks and Hispanics do not overlap at all. For black and Hispanic readers these are substantial barriers to reading (and eventually writing) science fiction.
I hope Nick will back me up when I say I tried writing a couple of stories addressing issues of race. At least one was pretty lousy -- sorry, Nick -- but it's more than I've seen in the major magazines, or from critics like Patrick (racism-by-ignorance) Samphire.
I'm not saying you haven't tried writing a couple of stories addressing issues of race. I'm not saying you're not a nice guy.
I'm saying what you said was racist. (And I said so at the discussion board, too.)
It's little wonder that blacks don't read science fiction and fantasy, and thus don't read it. There's no one to identify with.
Aughh! I agree, provisionally, that the characters in Asimov's & in much of science fiction may be the way you described. What you go on to do, though, is throw up the nauseating and spurious equation that black folks = ignorant, poor, rap-music-listening (Seamus O'Heany listens to rap; did you know that? Better scratch that from your list of markers.), ghetto-living, crackhead, despairing, hopeless, trifling folks.